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Iceheart
Undertaker / Pink Star Lover
 
Australia
1147 Posts |
 Posted - 04 June 2004 : 11:11:56 AM
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Ok, so the whole Goth/Gothic thing has been buggin me for ages and I present to you this extremnely BROAD question:
What is "Goth"
Some people have some really bizzare ideas wbout what is Goth and what isn't; like how you have to dress, what music you have to listen to, what religion you have to worship etc etc etc.
What is Goth to you?
(Shy could you make this into a separate forum for all stuff "Goth" ie: music, ideas, beliefs, dress code, jokes for Mazeppa's sake etc...???)
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Heaven bent to take my hand, and lead me thru the fire.
Be the long awaited answer, to a long and painful fight.
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Mazeppa
Zombie
 
USA
887 Posts |
Posted - 07 June 2004 : 10:11:51 AM
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Excellent topic, you ultra-uber pink-firebreathingsuperintelligent-
facinatingcyberspaceunderstandingGee!!grrrrrlllll.....
Obe definition in Webster's is:
"Goth'ic a. [L.L. Gothicus, from Gothus, pl.Gothi, the Goths.]
1. pertaining to the Goths or their language.
2. designating or a style of architecture developed in western Europe between the 12th and 16th centuries and characterised by the use of ribbed vaulting, flying buttresses, pointed arches, steep roofs, ect.
3. sometimes g-) (a) medieval; (b) not classical; (c) barbarous, uncivilized.
4. 4. In literature, using medieval locale, properties, local colour, ect., especially to produce an effect of horror and mystery."
Other definitions include the Visi-Goths, a Germanic tribe which assaulted and harassed the Romans continually, also there are definitions of Gothic script, a form of scribing letters.
The goth movement in America, came out of the punk era, punks were basically hippies with extreme attitude and dress style. I think that to a great degree they were (and I don't mean to insult any Punks out there) rather poorly read, and while much of the music was ok, most of it was violent pointless grinding crap, often posessing idiotic lyrics. Still, they had style, and though the movement had anarchy and destruction as a basis, they certainly got noticed! By the way, I DO like some of the punk music......but I think that much of the Goth movement grew out of the higher I.Q. punks, who enjoyed reading classical literature, de-sired more melody and perhaps exotic instruments in their music, persons of such individuality that the question arises, "What IS Goth?" Making your own dark elegant clothing is Goth, mastering romance language, respect for the dead, and awareness of them, historical study, reading between the lines, thinking for yourself, lurking on Shy's Chamber and Crypt, a love of graveyard "sculpture" and solitude, antiquarian clothing, BOOKS!, MUSIC!, fucking with peoples minds, in a GOOD way, spiders and bats in the house, Halloween all year, light bulb jokes...(heehee), understanding the nature of the universe and then forgetting it all, out of body experience.....ok, that is enough for now.....
*Lots more a-coming........*
mazeppa |
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Iceheart
Undertaker / Pink Star Lover
Australia
1147 Posts |
Posted - 07 June 2004 : 4:43:31 PM
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quote:
"What IS Goth?" Making your own dark elegant clothing is Goth, mastering romance language, respect for the dead, and awareness of them, historical study, reading between the lines, thinking for yourself, lurking on Shy's Chamber and Crypt, a love of graveyard "sculpture" and solitude, antiquarian clothing, BOOKS!, MUSIC!, fucking with peoples minds, in a GOOD way, spiders and bats in the house, Halloween all year, light bulb jokes...(heehee), understanding the nature of the universe and then forgetting it all, out of body experience.....ok, that is enough for now.....
mmmmm, you forgot to mention long dark hair and fingernails 
So basically you've summed up "goth" as being anything that isn't mainstream - which I tend to agree with.
However mainstream when it comes to music is quite dangerous when debating what is Goth and what isn't.
Some people believe that Goth music is NOT EVER played on a radio, in a club, at a function etc, and the bands RARELY tour and certainly when they do they DO NOT publicise their event.
But some people think they're Goth because they listen to Marilyn Manson, Slipknot, Nirvana, NIN, Cradle of Filth, etc - which really, those bands couldn't get themselves further away from the goth theme if they tried.
All their music is, is mainstream with hardcore base, screaming and drums.
I personally don't think Gothic music means music that worships Satanism ie: what Marilyn Manson's more popular albums were about, and music with no beginning and no end; one continual stream of heavy metal drum beats, guitars and screaming. Tho I dont condemn that shit, I like that shit when in the mood to head bang 
I think Gothic music is to a degree more of the unheard of stuff, as that keeps within the idea of itself, but not wholey and solely as made out to be.
Robat-boy, are you familiar with the music of Lesium? I think, and I use think really loosely, they're German....??
Kinda Indie/gregorian chant-ish.............I never was good at describing musci I liked other than FUCKING COOL! lol
Ive lost me train of thought as usual...fucking gemini brain, I CANNOT keep UP WITH YOU, when you decide to get back on the rails and SLOW THE FUCK DOWN feel free to let me KNOW!!
*lights a.......................CANDLE - MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA*
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Heaven bent to take my hand, and lead me thru the fire.
Be the long awaited answer, to a long and painful fight.
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Mazeppa
Zombie
USA
887 Posts |
Posted - 08 June 2004 : 09:21:11 AM
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Never heard of Lesium, but totally agree with your posting...."Shock" is naught what it was ever about, being different does naught re-quire glow-in-the-dark make-up and turning your teeth in-to fangs, or having a rib re-moved so you can BLOW your-self...I think of goth-i-ness as re-jecting Wal-Mart, the lies fed in the media, un-veiling truths, GOOD music, hard work and study, (like in the 1700's) knowing that a live oak is a live oak be-cause it does naught shed its leaves in Winter, and that it is perfectly shaped for ship-building, uh.....black clothing, antiquarian garb, castle know-ledge to the ex-tend you can BUILD one, re-spect for life yet a hunger to dance on the edge, uh, er....I am soooo Goth I forgot that I am....or where I am , or who we are....... Any-one out there work an iron forge??? Molten metal, black powder, old abandon prison and mental hos-pital X-ploration, co-vert entry of ab-andon factories and mausoleums, Vampyre hunting, cello playing, knowing what a Hurdy-Gurdy or a Glass Harmonica are, the clock-wise steps in a castle tower are clock-wise so a defender has the right-hand advantage, bell ringing also called "Change-Ringing," what stone is best for tomb-markers, how to properly wear a Cassock to imitate a Priest, knowing how to give last rites and having the kit to do so, memorizing all of Shakespearse verse, having a tool in your pocket to enter sewer tunnels, knowing how to demolish a building with grocery store items, decorating your domicile to resemble a medieval castle or a pirate ship,driving a car with sculptures all over it, training a horse to TALK, making all of Icehearts Vampyre drinks and still be able to quote Shakespeare, con-vincing a museum guard that you are a piece of performance art in a sculpture museum and having them GUARD you, keeping 400 phone numbers and web-sites in your skull, spelling well, and knowing antiquarian calligraphy, writing with a goose feather, knowing all of Von Clauswitze's military manouvers, firing a medieval arquebus on Cuban soil, (I am the only one in 300 years who DID this) researching VAMPYRES, and Sherlock Holmes, build-ing a web-site de-voted to serial killers, and unusual things, like Shy's Chamber!!! researching history so you don't do the same fucked up shit as thine predecessor, listening to Raputina and knowing what they are talking about........more to cum.
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Iceheart
Undertaker / Pink Star Lover
Australia
1147 Posts |
Posted - 08 June 2004 : 11:11:23 AM
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*squeal of delight*
I swear we knew each other in a past life Oh Gawthic One
You have the knowledge of everything that interests me - that i havent yet aquired.
I think having an interest in things that are Gothic largely constitutes a keeness for things of the previous centuries.
But I dont say ir oder to be a Goth you must like these things, but to me a true Goth seems to have a keen interest in things of the past.
Castles, battle-wear, religious worship, dress codes, dinner wear, etc seem to be highly attractive studies to the person who favours the black frock coat, mid calf lace up boots, dark make up and hair styling and old-style jewellery.
But then in saying this, I really dont think you can define a Goth as any one particular style of person.
Generally there seems to be guidelines to being a Goth or having Gothic interests, but with so much culture mixing and freelancing, I dont think you can really define any one type of person as being Goth.
Its more up to the individual to define their Gothicness, tho the general mentality is something along the lines of "I want to be alone, but I want to be seen."
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Heaven bent to take my hand, and lead me thru the fire.
Be the long awaited answer, to a long and painful fight.
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Mazeppa
Zombie
USA
887 Posts |
Posted - 08 June 2004 : 11:47:24 AM
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YES! Key to things of previous centuries, balanced with modern tools. and pro-ficiency with both.
For instance, ZI have a HUGE Grumman-Olsen potatoe chip van, it is like 24 feet long, and I con-verted the interior into a Victorian Parlour. Between that, and PAINTING its body, purchase price and some mech-an-i-cal re-paraition, I have about $3000 in it. Most U.S. dipshits pay about $30.000 for A RECreatioanal vehicle, and they all look like SHIT inside. $100.000 is naught un-usual....
A man 200 years ago might have an "inferior" horse, and a cheaper sword, yet take the field through sheer will-power, and love of his cause.
An inferior ship commanded by a brilliant tac-tit-i-oner might de-feet a superior NAVAL force *glances at Icehearts belly-button*
A stone thrown at a dick-ta-tor can in-sight the peasants to riot.
Castles of sand? Tide wash? Waffle? Goths attracting attention, long nails, purple hair, tatoos on the neck, ok, I can deal with that. But if you truly wish to be different, do it on a higher plane. Like fucking STELLAR! Be able to dissert on unusual topic, with ANY-WON. Be able to slip into any social party, and have your prey, and the best house liquors. Change things for the better, and intro-duce high society ladies to Rasputina and the de-lights of the cello. Shove art-work down their throats. Make them fi-nance your castle. Laugh as thee sally about in a suit of 16th Century Armour, you talked a German industrialist out of. Kick your boots off on a medieval credenza the Baron gave you for tipping off on a situation. Goth? Goth is intellect, charm, the grace of ages. It is a flying butt-ress, supporting a new church. It is a steep roof. It is a H.A.L.O. drop, it is knowledge. It is.....bones. Nerves. Brain.
More to cum.
mazeppa |
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Iceheart
Undertaker / Pink Star Lover
Australia
1147 Posts |
Posted - 09 June 2004 : 09:54:00 AM
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Yes - New Age Goth dresses to attrack attention, for even tho they strive to maintain an image of solitude, they cannot help but yearn to be noticed for their efforts all the same....
*ponder*
Old Style Goth may dress in coats of length and color of night sky, but their Gothicness is most noticeable in their tongue and brain...often indulging in lengthy conversation about things of the past; religions, battles, buildings, old cities, gods and goddesses.....
Mazeppa have you read BLood and Gold by Anne Rice? It is part of the Vampire Cronicles, however it is more a lesson in art and history than a Cronicle. And a most facsinating on at that. Anne's knowledge of the past two thousand years is amazing.
The character is the true Child of the Millennia, Marius.
Once a powerful senator in Imperial Rome, he is stolen by Druid and made a blood drinker in honour of their Religion, but he escapes and seeks out the root of the Vampyre Clan - The Divine Parents.
He tells his story of surviving the last two thousand years - from the fall of the Pagan Rome to the Emperor Constantine, the horrific sack opf the Eternal City at the hands of the Visigoths, and the vile aftermath of the Black Death.
Read it - its a fascinating history lesson - Marius is true old-style Goth character.
You remind me of him.
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Heaven bent to take my hand, and lead me thru the fire.
Be the long awaited answer, to a long and painful fight.
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bloodsfire
Ghost
 
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 10 June 2004 : 01:09:02 AM
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The word "Gothic" to me has nothing at all to do with long black hair and fingernails. Nor does it manifest itself in the morbid, manic-depressive behavior and attitudes so often adopted by those who like to paint thier faces and live pseudo-vampire existences, hiding in some black-walled, velvet draped hole.
Funny though, that what does come to mind are the dark, romantic tales woven by Edgar Allen, or the complex, and ancient "old ones" of H.P. Lovecraft. The masterfully sculpted visage of a Gargoyle perched above an antiquated Chapel of stone and suffering.
Strange that nearly all of the things which I do not consider to be 'modern-day' "Goth", are basically the exact things which represent to me the shadowy, plush world of what was once truly Gothic.
I suppose I see the Gothic period the same way I view the Victorian age, intriguing and complex, but definitley over and done with.
To label onself or ones taste as being Gothic is to me the same as labeling oneself a Disco Queen. Each has it's good points, each is a time immortal, frozen, never forgotten, but impossible to completely embody or duplicate in this year of our 'bored' 2004. (Honestly though, I really do think I'd have to choose the 'Goth' over the 'Disco Queen'. I can't stand the BeeGees.
I'm afraid that the previous comments(Mazeppa and Iceheart) were very much more eloquently stated, and most likely made better points. Perhaps I'll edit this later....Sleeplessness can do odd things to one's ability to make any sense at all.
"Say hello, to everything you've left behind....it's even more a part of your life now that you can't touch it." |
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Iceheart
Undertaker / Pink Star Lover
Australia
1147 Posts |
Posted - 10 June 2004 : 09:02:28 AM
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Well said nevertheless bloodsfire.
Lack of sleep does tend blur the vision!
Its fairly simple to sum up tho - There really ins't one particular type of action or person that you can call "Gothic", because Goth in itself means too many different things.
The Goth of the 12th century is completely different to the Goth of the 18th century who in turn is nothing at all like today's Goth.
The Goth in our society today, in general, really do nothing more than wear black clothing with long black coats or cloaks (like mine ), wear pale make up and dark eyes, have black hair, have black fingernails, listen to dark heavy metal music and think "Fuck I'm tough".
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I live with a man who claims he is a Goth and this is exactly what he is like....as are all his friends. They go to "tough" concerts but un-heard-of bands who scream into their mics and get applauded for it, dress in the darkest shade of black possible, (You'd be surprised how many different flavors of black there are. He said one shirt I have isn't black enough!!!) some ride skateboards, black of course, all seem to have some interest in Dark Religions and claim they're Spirit Attractors and know a lot about Death and Ghosts and Supernatural stuff, but thats about when the whole Goth thing stops.
Music is a big key for today's "True Goth" tho, after wearing all black of course.
If you like Marilyn Manson, AFI, NIN, etc - anything heavy and with lots of screaming then you're automatically a Goth.
A keen interest in anything Supernatural is another big key too.
Gothicness changes with the decade, and more largely with the century. Even the difference between the 80's Goth and the late 90's - to Now goth is hugely different.
Being Goth in the 80's had a sense of style and direction, today's doesn't really, as long as it black its in.
And PVC, my God - the best thing since the wheel!!
For female Goths, especially Cyber Goths, you need to own at least 10 pieces of PVC!!!!!!!!!!
Its funny how certain dress codes today class you asbeing "into" certain things.
Sometimes my outfit will consist of black everything except underwear, and my black coat (coz its winter - DER!) and I know people look at me and think "goth - oooooo".
Its quite ridiculous.
I have an interest in Paranormal stuff, I do wear black because hay, on a woman, black is a timeless color (take a lesson from Audrey Hepburn  - classicly beautiful in black), I have a few misc dress items that are somewhat Punk-ish/Gothic, but on the whole I would certainly naught classify myself as a Goth by today's standards.
I did a history assignment on the Fall of the Roman Empire when I was in high school, and I remember getting much info from this site. Of course its all "assumed the Fall happened and the Dark Ages of Europe follwed this" but none the less, tis a good read about what Goth was back then.
http://www.scienceandyou.org/articles/ess_13.shtml
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Heaven bent to take my hand, and lead me thru the fire.
Be the long awaited answer, to a long and painful fight.
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bloodsfire
Ghost
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 11 June 2004 : 04:15:14 AM
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All true, all true.
My punk-rock background sometimes causes me to throw up the finger to everything, even punk-rock.
But I am usually decked in black gear, I do not paint my face, since I rarely see the sun myself, and am almost transparent.
My brain is full of the darkest most morbid of thoughts.
I suppose we are all only what we proclaim to be.
I have ceased labeling my tastes, since there are no good words for what has come to be my 'self'. And god bless the dead roses and graveyards that decorated my mental landscape. (still do, to be honest) No term really applies. Honestly, I do not know what Goth is today. Perhaps a great side-project for me to take on.....
Miss Conception
"Say hello, to everything you've left behind....it's even more a part of your life now that you can't touch it." |
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Iceheart
Undertaker / Pink Star Lover
Australia
1147 Posts |
Posted - 11 June 2004 : 2:06:57 PM
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quote:
I have ceased labeling my tastes, since there are no good words for what has come to be my 'self'. And god bless the dead roses and graveyards that decorated my mental landscape. (still do, to be honest) No term really applies.
What has come of "yourself" that makes you think there is no good left?
A worm may eat the apple inside and out, but worms only eat the human body when the soul has already fled
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I think Gothic-ness was more interesting in the previous centuries...when it was based more on a person's conversation and occupation.
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Heaven bent to take my hand, and lead me thru the fire.
Be the long awaited answer, to a long and painful fight.
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Iceheart
Undertaker / Pink Star Lover
Australia
1147 Posts |
Posted - 11 June 2004 : 2:07:24 PM
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quote:
I have ceased labeling my tastes, since there are no good words for what has come to be my 'self'. And god bless the dead roses and graveyards that decorated my mental landscape. (still do, to be honest) No term really applies.
What has come of "yourself" that makes you think there is no good left?
A worm may eat the apple inside and out, but worms only eat the human body when the soul has already fled
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I think Gothic-ness was more interesting in the previous centuries...when it was based more on a person's conversation and occupation.
Then again, perhaps I read too much and am caught up in fantasy, again.
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Heaven bent to take my hand, and lead me thru the fire.
Be the long awaited answer, to a long and painful fight.
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bloodsfire
Ghost
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 11 June 2004 : 4:16:16 PM
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I did not mean to imply that I find any of what makes me me to be bad, in essence, Simply that if I were to begin to describe myself in 'terms', I would run the risk of completely confusing those who may try to digest my quirks, but I feel I wold be defeating myself in making it too easy to summarize my 'self'. I am quite enamored of my existence, despite how it may seem to an outsider, and prize my pain as i prize my pleasure. Both of immense value, and impossible to live without.
"Say hello, to everything you've left behind....it's even more a part of your life now that you can't touch it." |
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Nothing
Ghost
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 20 June 2004 : 04:28:09 AM
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This is a letter sent to major American newspapers by 'Calek Hunter,' the online role-playing alias of Russ Brewer, a 22-year-old sales- floor associate at Wal-Mart in Waukesha, Wis. It is an explanation of 'Goth,' the youth subculture that apparently fascinated the two students who killed 15 people last month at a Colorado high school.
Because of the terrible tragedy in Littleton and the wrongful accusations of a handful of reporters, open season on Goths has begun.
In hopes that a few of you may take this to heart, I want to explain what "Goth" is.
Everyone outside who sees someone of a Gothic nature wants a peek inside. Most are afraid and chastise us for how we look, even before they see who we are, how we act, and why we prefer what we are over all the other stereotypical archetypes.
Jocks like sports. Cheerleaders like jocks. Skaters like skateboarding and other extreme sports. Goths like beauty, and the wondrous imagery of the supernatural and occult.
People wonder why we dress like something out of "Night of the Living Dead" - frilly poet shirts, lace, leather, and fishnet. It's not that we're obsessed with death. It's that dressing like we're in a casket is our own way of expressing ourselves.
In a perfect world, Goths would accept everything and everyone for who and what they are. But unfortunately it isn't a perfect world, no matter how much we all attempt to delude ourselves. So we must suffer the degradation and harassment of everyone outside.
Goths live by their own rules. Most people see that as anarchy. We don't. We live our lives the way we see fit, disregarding all everyone else says about us. We strive to be content with ourselves and surroundings. To find peace. We may see beauty differently than you do, but beauty is beauty any way you see it. It may be dew on a rose in the morning, or the way the clouds wrap the moon at night.
The reason Goths may lean toward the supernatural and the occult is the extreme nature of those things. The imagery of the supernatural and occult myths and facts appeal to us in many different ways. Vampirism and fairy lore, for example, are the most popular among the Goths.
If you look deeper into the mythology of the vampire, you'll see that it is nothing short of a romantic love myth. As for the fairies, who can resist a beautiful male or female with wings?
We do not set out to avenge any wrongs committed against us, we do not wear our trench coats to conceal automatic weapons to open fire on our peers. If someone would act against a Goth, the most we'd do is toss spiders in his hair. At the darkest, we'd glare with an unsettling gaze from our black-rimmed eyes. Then we'd talk and laugh about it later with our friends.
The dark music we listen to is not why we are Goths. That music is made by Goths for us. For this reason, most Goths tend to disregard the claim that rock star Marilyn Manson (b. Brian Warner) is Goth - simply because the teeny boppers who have become Goth because of him don't know the true meaning of the culture. Instead, they revel in the wave of demented anarchy that Manson has brought into the limelight. At
best, Brian Warner simply took from us a small amount of the fashion. At worst, he has warped the idealism in favor of his own twisted thinking, lyrically, photographically, and in appearance.
We may seem to act strangely to you, but we are merely content with ourselves, and know that no matter what others think of us, we know our own self-worth. You see us acting ethereal, or depressed, or zombified - but that is just our way of showing you how we feel inside. We aren't afraid of our emotions; we revel in them and show the world how we feel, because how we feel is what makes us who we are.
Whenever the "objective" media come along and do a report on our subculture, many times they see us as a threat. Very few reporters have been brave enough to actually dig deep into our lives, our thoughts, and our reasons for being true to ourselves. Those who have, know we are not a threat and come away more enlightened - not just about us, but about their own lives as well. The majority of reporters who take us at face value deem us "evil" or a threat to the "normal people."
We are not a "gang." We group together due to friendship and camaraderie just like jocks - who are never considered a street gang - would go to a basketball game together.
We wear black for many different reasons, some symbolic, others not so symbolic. Black is the absorption of all colors. Like black, we wish to absorb and feel the range of human emotion and sensation. Also, black clothes go with anything - in a fashion sense. Black also makes the skin look paler which adds to our dramatic and theatrical appearance. That dramatic flair is an outlet for expressing who we are and how we feel, not to scare little children and the elderly.
I hope this explanation helps you in the media to see a little more into our lives. Maybe next time you'll be a little more kind when it comes to finding a scapegoat in a terrible tragedy like Littleton. We may prefer the night, but we are not the creatures who go bump in it.
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Glasya-Labolas
Ghost
Australia
66 Posts |
Posted - 25 June 2004 : 01:09:15 AM
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Ice heart et all. seem to be missing the fact. A true 'goth' or someone who the general public seems to perceive as a 'goth' doesnt adhere to the stereotype desacribed at all in their day to day lives.
The dress and music types that have been described only apply to one part of the subcultures that have been lumped together under the 'gothic' banner. What about the lolita, or loli, goths? Undustrial and fetish goths? Punk and ratty goths? Fairy / glitter goths and pony goths? And the myriad of other sub - types in the culture?
Conveniently Iceheart you have neglected these groups and divided them from what you concider to be the gothic ideal. Something that people who are not alltogether familiar with seen to cling onto to describe those swpooky people that they see at times, and that more often than not, scare them.
Im not saying that you are wrong in your assumptions, the typical goth that you described did exist in the early to mid eighties, and died as a subsulture in the early ninties. To evolve into a bigger and more divers 'monster' if you will.
What you seem to beleive is gothic, is more closley resembling in description, the movement known as 'romantics' or 'new romantic' and also the 'medieval' movement.
The subculture commonly known as goth started in london during the late 70's, evolving from the blossoming riot culture of early punk.
Try and not get confused with the germanic tribes of ancient, and early mideaval times, that were known as the Goths, VisiGoths and Ostragoths. Or with the Post medieval archetectural and artistic period known as the 'gothic' period.
I would advise all to research all topics they post on before saying something, not becasue Im an elitist snob, but because things said in an online forum can easliy be misunderstood and confused and appear to be offensive or uneducated/ stupid, without actually being so.
F.Y.I slipknot is part of thrasher culture, nirvaner is death rock and stoner culture, manson and n.in is cyber punk / electronica. Just incase anyone needed clarification on the subject.
For general intrest some bands to check out, if you havent already are....
My dying bride, moonspell, dead can dance, the damned (for those into 'old skool' also check out sisters of mercy and the cure) genitortures, my ruin, lacrimosa, skinny puppy, front 242, wumpskut, lacuna coil, opeth and many others. I included a variety of genres for those who are into the other types of goth cultures, i.e industrial, punk etc.....
I appologise for my poor spelling and punctuation, i have been up for 2 days writing essays and moving house. Sleep deprivation can wreak havoc on ones ability to type and puncutate choherently....
So for those active in the brisbane and QLD scenes see you out there...
Caacrinolaas (aka Caassimolar, Glassia-labolas) is a high president of hell who commands 36 legions. He appears as a dog with griffin wings. He teaches liberal arts, inspires murder, makes men invisible, and predicts the future. In the Great Grimoire, he is called Classyalabolas, a sergeant sometimes mounted to Nebiros or Naberus.
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Edited by - Glasya-Labolas on 28 June 2004 7:57:26 PM |
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Glasya-Labolas
Ghost
Australia
66 Posts |
Posted - 25 June 2004 : 01:19:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Iceheart
...But some people think they're Goth because they listen to Marilyn Manson, Slipknot, Nirvana, NIN, Cradle of Filth, etc - which really, those bands couldn't get themselves further away from the goth theme if they tried.
All their music is, is mainstream with hardcore base, screaming and drums.
I personally don't think Gothic music means music that worships Satanism ie: what Marilyn Manson's more popular albums were about, and music with no beginning and no end; one continual stream of heavy metal drum beats, guitars and screaming. Tho I dont condemn that shit, I like that shit when in the mood to head bang
...
Methinks that you havent actualy listend to the work of manson, or n.i.n.
Firstly neither groups scream incessantly in the music - if at all.
Manson writes about satanism as a metaphore for the corruption that is polluting our world, and to describe the internal trumoil of his battle with child sexual abuse and being ostrascised as a child / teen. Take a listen to his work, and the work of eminem, the message is the same. Just broadcast to a different demographic. Nothing to do with goth or satanism in a literal sence...
Trent Reznor ( N.I.N head man for those who dont know) has never sung about satan or religion at all. Check out the back catolouge if you need confirmation. His music is about pain, relationships, fear and anger at the government and other elements of his society that render him helpless to govern his own destiny. He also created manson, and mant other artists that are now concidered by many within the culture, and without, to be gothic bands.
It is true that many gothic bands are underground, but there is what could be concidered a mainstream within the culture....
And the other bands you mentioned arent always on the radio, infact slipknot very very rarely is....
Caacrinolaas (aka Caassimolar, Glassia-labolas) is a high president of hell who commands 36 legions. He appears as a dog with griffin wings. He teaches liberal arts, inspires murder, makes men invisible, and predicts the future. In the Great Grimoire, he is called Classyalabolas, a sergeant sometimes mounted to Nebiros or Naberus.
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Edited by - Glasya-Labolas on 28 June 2004 7:58:10 PM |
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What is "Goth"
