seeking readers of notorious british criminals
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Topic URL: https://www.shyscyberchamber.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1429
Printed on: 21 July 2008
Topic:
Topic author: killingmeslowly
Subject: seeking readers of notorious british criminals i'm in the process of writing a book about my fathers experience of looking after certain killers at Parkhurst Prison (Isle of Wight, England) during the early 80's.
Replies:
Posted on: 01 May 2004 2:38:01 PM
Message:
it will describe the life inside of Ian Brady (the Moors Murderer), Peter Sutcliffe (the Yorkshire Ripper), Reggie Kray (of the Kray Twins, obviously), John Bowden (with his infamous prison hijacking) and Donald Nielson (the Black Panther) amongst numerous others. it will also describe life in general within the maximum security prison.
the book isn't anything profound and will not offer any second-rate analysis of the 'criminal mind' etc but simply serve to describe the people after their conviction.
i am seeking avid readers of British crime/criminals who can offer their constructive thoughts and opinions regarding my work (i'm totally new to writing - in fact i've yet to learn joined-up!! 
)
if anyone is interested please message me. the text currently runs at 10,000 words but is growing daily weekly no, erm, in between bouts of diaper-changing and baby puke.. 
Reply author: Jukama
Replied on: 28 June 2004 3:47:26 PM
Message:
I don't know about contributions but I for one would certainly read it - the Moors Murders have always held a kind of sick fascination for me. I know someone who interviewed Myra Hindley and he said she was the most chillingly evil woman he has ever met. This was while she was trying to get paroled as a repentant Christian. Apparently Ian kept writing to the parole boards urging them to refuse her as she was well aware of what they were doing to the children and wasn't capable of feeling repentance.
I'd like to get a first-hand description of life in Parkhurst - keep writing.
**Our ways are not your ways, and there shall be to you many strange things**
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 01 July 2004 6:34:10 PM
Message:
yes Brady did write to the Government and the National Press informing them that she shouldn't be released. Fat chance anyway - no one wanted to be known as the 'person who freed Hindley.'
actually, as i describe in the draft, Brady was the only prisoner who chilled my Father and his transformation during his time at Parkhurst was quite profound. he lost it, mentally, within a few months of his arrival there.
Reply author: Jukama
Replied on: 02 July 2004 12:06:54 PM
Message:
please let me know when you are finished - I await this book with great anticipation.
**Our ways are not your ways, and there shall be to you many strange things**
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 02 July 2004 2:25:20 PM
Message:
ah - you'd probably have a dribbling problem, wear 20 year old clothing and smell faintly of wee by then..
Reply author: Jukama
Replied on: 05 July 2004 1:47:42 PM
Message:
What - it's out tomorrow?????
**Our ways are not your ways, and there shall be to you many strange things**
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 05 July 2004 3:30:14 PM
Message:
no, so don't piss your pants just yet!
that said, i have some great stories about him and others at parkhurst - i just hope i can do them justice (so to speak....)
Reply author: Dee250
Replied on: 05 July 2004 11:09:00 PM
Message:
Do you think that he really lost it? Or just decided to give that impression?
No matter what Ian Brady is, he's certainly incredibly intelligent and a prime manipulator. The kind of person that would look at you and quickly decide your worth to him, and how best to appear to you. It would seem that Myra Hindley was playing that game too, but was far more transparent.
I'd be interested to read your work KMS, as I've told you before. Good luck with it - Be careful not to cross any boundries of confidentiality on your father's part.
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 06 July 2004 07:11:06 AM
Message:
Hello again Dee,
Without a doubt he went mad, I think he didn't fake it at all. Although the apparent reasons for losing it seem really quite minor even his close supporter, Lord Longford, was stunned by his change. Also, Brady has never asked to be released nor shown any remorse for his actions.
Hindley is a different and difficult matter. Sometimes a supporter of her (there was no proof she actually killed any of the victims) but other times she seems to have acted tactically in trying to secure release.
Regardless, 23 prisoners (nine of whom remain unknown) have been given "whole life" tariffs - including West, as you're no doubt aware. British prisons have always been about reform and this act goes against the very purpose of our justice system. Victims families don't make good jurors and nor do politicians.
Reply author: Dee250
Replied on: 06 July 2004 10:22:50 PM
Message:
What is madness? You say that he went mad. This has always been a question I've pondered. Is madness a shift in perception, where what is deemed acceptable behaviour by the majority is no longer in line with the view of the individual? I've read Ian Brady's book found his views quite valid in many cases. If you read his analysis of a psychopath, you'll recognise the traits in your family, friends and yourself. Surely Ian Brady must have been mad to have done what he did in the 60s. When people think mad, they assume a raving lunatic, or someone like the homeless people you see wandering around and yelling at cars. But in truth, it's all around us. Most of us are capable of extreme's given the right (wrong) situation and triggers. Ian Brady's theory that the serial killer has chosen his path to live one day as a lion as opposed to living a lifetime as a sheep is just retoric, him trying to rationalise his own idea of himself as a superior person, which he clearly does.
The whole life tariff handed out nowadays is more to serve the media and they're power over public opinion. Myra Hindley was sentanced to life with a rec. of 30 years - Meaning that if freed, she'd have been on license for life. Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper was given multiple life with a 30 year rec., which would make him eligable for parole in 2011, if he wasn't detained in Broadmoor (should he be there?? - Now he is a prime manipulator!). The Press and Media whip public opinion to such a point that no Home Secretary would want to have to order the release of such high profile figures.
An interesting case here now is Maxine Carr, who has been released after serving half of her 4 year sentance for perverting the course of justice. She was found not guilty of any part in the Soham murders last December - Her crime was giving an alibi to her fiancee. And yet, the media storm that surrounds her is unbeliveable. She has anonymity and protection for life, the Press are barred from reporting her whereabouts, and yet this weekend, a newspaper carried a headline on it's front page. Maxine Carr's guilt was decided by the press and as a result, she may well end up hunted down.
You're totally right - The Whole Life tariff is completely wrong, but an alternative to successive Home Secretary's extending sentances, as with Myra Hindley and the Kray Twins - This practice was outlawed by the European Courts, which is probably the reason for the current situation.
Controlling the media and making the courts do their job would be a start. No chance there then.
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 07 July 2004 05:49:53 AM
Message:
apologies for being so vague with the 'madness' issue. in Brady's case specifically, I generally meant his ability to fuction normally (communicate, mental reason, basic hygiene & care etc.)
he hated Parkhurst and the Government (seemingly thinking he was the subject of a conspiracy) and within months of his transfer his behaviour changed drastically, which i describe in detail.
i've never read "The Gates of Janus" actually - i'm waiting for his Bio (only to be released after his death.) he thinks that no one can possibly understand him and this is perhaps the reason for the apparent "superior" attitude of his.
media/voter-driven justice isn't justice at all and Carr will pay that price forever - how many readers here haven't lied to protect a loved one or kept a secret from them? (for instance, a surprise party perhaps.)
controlling the media is a difficult one as we (thankfully) live in a free society but playing with peoples lives etc for the sake of readership is just so sad (for wont of a better word). My father once enjoyed a good relationship with the tabloids but has refused to deal with them for 15-20 years now.
as for politicians, they should have no say in the law - christ, we don't want the American situation on our hands!
Reply author: Dee250
Replied on: 14 July 2004 06:59:34 AM
Message:
Hi KMS
What did your father make of Donald Neilson? I saw a picture of him on the top of one of the forums here. After his conviction in whenever it was, 75 or 76, he disappear from view. I don't recall seeing anything about him anywhere.
Did your father have any thoughts?
D
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 15 July 2004 06:40:58 AM
Message:
howdies dee, we haven't discussed him in any detail as yet but he's on my list.
when my father first went to Parkhurst, Nielson was in the Special Secure Block. This was one of two 'prisons within prisons' in Britain and had its own fences, camera's both inside and out (the only part of the prison that did) and shit-loads of electronic gates.
the SSB was made to house "high risk" Category A prisoners after the problems in Northern Ireland grew. there were only six people in the SSB, 3 IRA (of the Balcombe Street Siege), Nielson and two other police killers (who were held there for partly political reasons.)
Nielson is one of the 23 who'll never be released from custody. as i said, i haven't gotten to him yet so i don't know what he's like but, agreed, he has had quite a low profile since being prisoned.
Reply author: Catseye
Replied on: 08 October 2004 6:59:43 PM
Message:
how is your book shapping up KMS? I would very much be interested in reading it.
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 09 October 2004 05:51:37 AM
Message:
little progress i'm afraid as i'm currently re-writing my efforts so far. yet i have been busy with 'interviewing', gaining info and research.
i've got some incredible stories so far - even the mundane daily prison life is interesting/shocking/hilarious - and am in the process of setting up a web site giving a few details (as all i've done so far is talk about the book but offered nothing!)
Reply author: Catseye
Replied on: 09 October 2004 07:41:35 AM
Message:
im sure there are lots of volunteers to proof read it so far here.
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 09 October 2004 09:40:15 AM
Message:
thanks catseye,
although no one has actually offered as much yet, therefore i haven't kept this thread up to date because i thought there was a lack of interest here!
at this very moment i'm working on the website which will act as a 'feeder' and, hopefully, will have it online very shortly. i'll keep you posted. 
Reply author: james
Replied on: 18 October 2004 10:57:33 AM
Message:
Hello KMS , Myra Hindley was found guilty of the murders of Lesley Ann Downey and Edward Evans and for harbouring Brady in the knowledge that he had killed John Kilbride.They must have had some proof other than the photos and cassete tapes found in her bedroom?
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 19 October 2004 05:32:43 AM
Message:
i can't recall all the details (ie i'm too lazy to get out of my chair), yet my scope is only post-conviction anyway.
the body of edward evans was in one of the bedrooms when brady and hindley were arrested. also a witness placed her at the scene when evans was actually murdered. that's one out of the way but i can't immediately recall the details of the others...
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 28 November 2004 8:39:21 PM
Message:
this, to those interested, is just an update..
perhaps a 'downdate' is more descriptive. i'm currently playing around with the structure and narrative of the story - which means little is actually being written at present.
i wouldn't have mentioned trying to write such a book if i thought the weeks would turn in to months! still, i'm in contact with my sources very regulary and doing much research (on Sutcliffe at the moment.)
also, though i am far from producing a finished product, i really must sort out that web-site so i can 'feed' certain info to retain interest (such as the guy with the perminant hard-on, or the one that never ever blinked, even the bloke who ate absolutely anything he could get his hands on - including the whole arched plastic handle of a bucket...)
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 12 April 2006 9:12:49 PM
Message:
ug, i managed to find this site again after a bit of a mare last year.
book is still far from finished as i'm now trying to exploit the Freedom of Information Act in Britain. got some nice info from this actually, dates and times etc but am now trying to get the Governors Journals (the head of every prison wrote in it each day) which could contain stuff that would seriously alter the proposed book. should take a month or two to get a response from them.
anyway, Ian Brady (Moors Murderer), Peter Sutcliffe (Yorkshire Ripper), Reggie Kray (of the Kray Twins) are basically complete. as is the research regarding the seperate sections of the prison, daily life on the wings (from Unlock to Lockup) and other issues like Food (which is basically hilarious!)
thankfully my wife is now on maternity leave (yet again..) so i'll have more time to devote to the draft. hopefully, maybe .. what dear? you want more coffee - ok, right-a-way!
i'll keep you posted.
Reply author: killingmeslowly
Replied on: 31 August 2006 7:46:04 PM
Message:
apologies for the delay - i have three children under the age of 5 now and each drive me crazy.
i've hit upon two vastly differing methods of presenting the book and i'll post snippets on a new website shortly (i promise!)
apart from the lives of above said criminals, it will include hilarious episodes within prison life and, also, the following whilst my Father was there: 2 Murders, 9 Suicides, countless (absolutely countless) stabbings and the almost daily ringing of the emergency alarm.
furthermore, an incredibly angry Reggie Kray, an incredibly mad Ian Brady, an incredibly polite Peter Sutcliffe and a incredibly bizzare situation all round.
i'm on a strict time schedule now so i'll keep you informed and tell you the link once created.
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